Curse

kvndoom · Nov 02, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by nimek

Now i'm just waitg for relics run and guild lord on ra/ta ... gj a.net -_-'

VoD in 4 minutes!!!!

Draikin · Nov 02, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

There's only one thing for Anet to do in my opinion: revert this update, then update Hero Battles and actually make it a balanced format and only then reconsider adding those maps to TA again. Now they just went "seems like people like Costume brawl, so let's add HB maps to TA" without even considering what kind of an impact it would have. The worst part about all this is that Anet didn't ask the community for their opinion, they could have easily avoided this mess by simply creating a poll and/or discuss possible changes to the map objectives before they were implemented.

RoF · Nov 02, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

Uh................. no?

explain? how is a curse necro, played in a balanced albeit pressure based template a gimmick? What is your idea of a balanced team arena team? We don't use thumpers, warmonger rit spirit poopers, or assassins, none of the skills on any players bar are overpowered (unless you think corrupt enchantment is overpowered). Our build has offence (cripslash), disruption (BA), melee shutdown/enchant remove (nec), and prot (monk). How is this a gimmick?

I can see how it is heavily condi and hex pressure based to score kills, but their are not enough slots on a team arena team to 321 adrenal spike someone with 2 warriors, sorry. You would lose way too much utility.

Really though I SUCK at guild wars, enlighten me. What is your idea of a balanced non gimmick team?

P.S. on the note of gimmicks, WTB a weapon removal spell for mesmer. Perhaps change drain enchant to remove and enchant OR a weapon spell, and while you do that, fix it so it gives back more energy instead of health please :P

onerabbit · Nov 02, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

i now hate RA/TA even more -.-;

Pulpulpullie · Nov 02, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

..... >.> this sounds absolutely terrible..

time to bring the escape ranger. O-o

<-- totaly agrees...
<-- hates HB maps...
<-- wants his RA back...

hellyea526 · Nov 02, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

anet....are you tryin to make people quit pvp?

Keithark · Nov 02, 2007, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Knew when I read the first post I hate this idea, went home at lunch and tried it out and hated it more, then rolled a touch ranger and pissed people off and told them to be sure to come here and tell a-net to remove this BS. I will now be running toucher, 55monk, 55 necro, and any other retard build I can think of until they revert this change. I could just quit but I like the game too much for that so imma make everyone else miserable please join me maybe it will make them change it back

subNinja · Nov 02, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

To everyone who seems to think this will somehow "promote diverse strategies"...

It won't. I can tell you that right now. The classes which will be favored will be running classes, ie rangers with escape and sins with teleport/running skills. The thing is, you get points not just for kills but for HOLDING shrines. So even if one team utterly dominates the other team in terms of strategy, skill and good playing, they can be beaten by the other team having bars full of running skills. And yes, this will still happen if you have a good balanced build. (think of a standard TA team with 1 monk trying to split vs assassins who are incredibly mobile, have self heals and can easily dominate 1v1)

So this means people who want to win in TA maps as well as HB maps will have to run a build with a runner, or all runners. Even if we overlook the fact that these maps are long and arduous with minimal reward, we are still left with the following:

1) Running builds will be the fotm, 4 assassins with stances, teleport, hit and run etc
2) Balanced builds will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage vs teams geared towards HB maps. TA gameplay is VERY different from shrine capping.
3) It will NOT promote teamplay and skill. RA will be a clusterRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO of disorganized horribleness and TA will give the advantage to independant running teams.

I can see how these new maps may seem to take more "strategy" but anyone who's played high-end TA can tell you that TA does require a LOT of communication, strategy and individual player skill. There is no one fotm build, and you will not win 100% of the time if you run a popular build, it will always come down to how well you play it. It's also very possible to win with a sloppy build if you coordinate with your team well enough.

I can also see how this mode (much like AB) would appeal to some people. I think that it could be fun to run with 4 independant characters to cap, solo fight and such on a map like this. It would give people who like playing solo builds a chance to shine. People could even use teamwork to coordinate which shrines people are capping, who needs help etc. The thing is, this is NOT AT ALL the same as TA. TA is about overcoming the enemy as a group, rather than running around the map trying to coordinate positioning. There is a MASSIVE difference. It's the difference between a runner (or 2x sin split team) running the flag in a GvG vs two guilds duking it out at the flagstand. The builds will not and cannot be the same for the two play types, and either type of build will be beaten by the other if they're playing the other type of play.

So, is it a neat idea? Sure. But it's nowhere near the same type of gameplay as TA or RA. Really the only way it'll work is if the two game modes stay seperate so that the builds that people create will not be so out of wack with one or the other game type. I think Anet is most likely trying this out so that they can create a new arena type (similar to hero battles but without heros) separate from TA and RA, because frankly, the type of gameplay is just too different to allow builds which keep skill strategy and teamplay as a focus in both gametypes.

Ecklipze · Nov 02, 2007, 09:17 PM // 21:17

If I wanted HB type maps I'd play HB.

It needs to be reverted.

Fast.

Shuuda · Nov 02, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Personally to sum up what I think:

- Good intentions of adding variation to RA/TA.
- Could have been done better (different Variations could have been nicer)
- This format with all players could potenially be more fun that HB itself, in other words, mow down Hero battles and add Player Battles.
- People are OVERREACTING as always, after all, every update by A-net is "the worst thing they have ever done", it makes me lol.
- TA needs attention, DOWN WITH HA, UP WITH TA.

Ekelon · Nov 02, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera

I just play TA because of its simplicity. I play TA to relax. I play TA because I really like the simple concept of 4v4 deathmatch, which hardly requires any tactics.

Surely some people find it repetitive, but that hasn't stopped most TA players.
We simply haven't asked for another gametype, it's not the right kind of attention TA needs.

Yea, true. TA is it's very own and special type of PvP style (Many people didn't like HB at first because of it's running around, but that's what makes HB different than other PvP types and what makes it special and unique in its own way). What makes TA different is that it is a test of 4v4, player skill vs. player skill in head to head combat. That's what makes TA special. The added HB maps changed that.

Zui · Nov 02, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Personally to sum up what I think:

- Good intentions of adding variation to RA/TA.
- Could have been done better (different Variations could have been nicer)
- This format with all players could potenially be more fun that HB itself, in other words, mow down Hero battles and add Player Battles.
- People are OVERREACTING as always, after all, every update by A-net is "the worst thing they have ever done", it makes me lol.
- TA needs attention, DOWN WITH HA, UP WITH TA.

To sum up what I think about what you think:

- The greatest harm often results from the best of intentions. Someone having good intentions that have a negative effect is not good, it's bad, and although you can not blame them for being malevolent, you can absolutely blame them for failing due to lack of understanding, and not understanding they lack understanding.

- Please elaborate, but I definitely agree it could have done better. Some ways it could have been done better: ANET could have done absolutely nothing at all; ANET could have done what TA players asked for, and add new TA maps; ANET could have made HvH maps with 4 players a separate arena, perhaps by adding a separate enter button in HvH.

- That has been suggested ever since Hero Battles were added, and most everyone agrees HvH without any Heroes = good gametype (at the very least better than HvH). However, since the developers read the forums, and the 'community relations' people read the forums and pass on threads and ideas of intrest, ANET should have already been exposed to this idea, yes? (Also, I know some people have PMed Izzy to discuss that very idea, so it's obvious they have been exposed to it)

- People cry after every update. Usually, it's a minority of players, or PvErs who've just had their favorite skill/farming spot nerfed and as such now need to use a brain slightly more to win at PvE. However, when a majority of the PvP community complains about an update, especially when nearly every upper-tier player (for this, most upper tier TA player) thinks it's a bad idea, it's almost always a bad idea (Actually, the only one that comes to my head was the 6 vs 6 change to HA, and that one is still debatable, as there were a lot more factors than 6 vs 6 that made HA at that time really, really, really, really bad).

- TA has needed attention for a long time. ANET has known this. However, they apparently think TA is a joke format with no potential, or just think the playerbase is too small to justify any major changes.

Shuuda · Nov 02, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

To sum up what I think about what you think:

- People cry after every update. Usually, it's a minority of players, or PvErs who've just had their favorite skill/farming spot nerfed and as such now need to use a brain slightly more to win at PvE. However, when a majority of the PvP community complains about an update, especially when nearly every upper-tier player (for this, most upper tier TA player) thinks it's a bad idea, it's almost always a bad idea (Actually, the only one that comes to my head was the 6 vs 6 change to HA, and that one is still debatable, as there were a lot more factors than 6 vs 6 that made HA at that time really, really, really, really bad).

Personally, after so many out cries, I find it hard to tell who are the ones doing whining anymore. It's like everyone complains about everything around here. And you can't just say that most of the PvPers hate something because of a few topics on a forum, which are unreliable. Ingame polls in TA would work better, which take note of the subjects gladiator rank and total amount of Balthazar points.

But at this point, I find it very hard to take forum whines seriously anymore.

On topic, I played a few of these HB maps in an RA run, and for the most part, it was enjoyable, but this was most likely due to the fact that I had a good team (which is rare for RA), even my Mesmer performed well (the only tweak made to my build was adding a running stance for slight moblity). But like I said, it was most likely due to the decent team I had.

plastichead · Nov 03, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

did they have to do these maps during the double glad weekend?
i can't even force myself to play these RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing maps.
ANET you FAIL

and i honestly do not understand the lack of posts complaining about it.

there should be a hundred pages!!!!!

erk · Nov 03, 2007, 01:38 AM // 01:38

I have never played HB, I played the new maps in RA today, seemed ok. I was a little disorientated for the first couple of new maps but it doesn't take long to get the hang of it. I can't see anything really unsuitable about them, being only a small portion of the available maps, they are certainly not going to take over the meta, the Glad farmers might get annoyed a bit as the games take a little longer on the new maps. The people that play for fun should find them interesting.

Miriandel · Nov 03, 2007, 01:50 AM // 01:50

I for one like the introduction of HB maps into RA/TA maps, it adds a well needed variety and, mostly, underline the problems with HB maps, rez system (no DP) and overpowered skills.

And I can actually have fun in RA when playing with noobs (95% of teams) trying to score more points with shrines capping than they lose dieing stupidly

Seraphim of Chaos · Nov 03, 2007, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Ok, I don't like it.

sagilltwins · Nov 03, 2007, 03:47 AM // 03:47

just when i thought i was done with HvH since i got my r3 commander.... damn

Zui · Nov 03, 2007, 03:49 AM // 03:49

The people who are in support of this change are obviously right. I can't believe I didn't see this sooner. I must thank the three posters on this page that have enlightened me with their insights about how good this change is from playing Random Arenas. We all know that what holds true for Random Arenas holds true for Team Arenas, and the rest of the game for that matter. We also know that Random Arenas players are almost always right, as they are some of the most knowledgeable players in the entire game. I just can't believe I didn't see it sooner, and am ashamed to admit that I am not a Random Arenas pro. This will be my last post at Guru, as I will now go into forum exile.

/sarcasm--come on people, did you not realize you are posting in the Team Arenas forum? Ok, so this is possibly a good change for Random Arenas, at least in your opinion. So? Random Arenas is barely PvP. It is a complete joke, as it is 1+1+1+1vs1+1+1+1 play, with each individual being random, and most individuals having absolutely no clue how to play the game. Because Random Arenas is barely even PvP, and most certainly not anything like Team Arenas aside from the same maps, and the fact you still have four players on each side, why are you even talking about Random Arenas when this thread has to do with Team Arenas? The two formats could not be more different. Random Arenas is a format where a bunch of idiots run around to "own" everyone and everything, and only a very small minority of good players go to farm gladiator points, or find people to put on TTN, or to waste spare time. Team Arenas is not Random Arenas; the two are different enough that trying to draw comparisons between them in regards to what is good gameplay wise, in many cases, would be like saying that splitting on alter maps in HA is good, because splitting in GvG is good too! Not only is that an oversimplified comparison, it's also a comparison that's based on an oversimplified view. It's akin to comparing clouds and the sun, and as such saying the sun moves around the earth, because it's obvious that clouds move, based on the 'evidence' that you can see both the sun, and clouds in the sky. Perhaps my analogies here suck, but I find the stupidity of saying 'itz gud n ra so like ya' to be nearly ineffable.

Can everyone please stop bringing Random Arenas into the discussion about how this change relates to Team Arenas? If someone has a valid comparison between the two, that relates to this thread, then let's hear it. But really bad, and subjective comparisons between the two should not be in this tread, nor should non-comparisons that seem to imply a comparison. This is all in my opinion, of course.

osk · Nov 03, 2007, 04:03 AM // 04:03

it's just bad, real bad.... takes too long for a supposingly "quick random arena match".